Insomnia (insomnia) wrote,
Insomnia
insomnia

Future American lawyers to be proud of.

... and Alberto Gonzales.

Alberto Gonzales spoke before law students at Georgetown today, justifying illegal, unauthorized surveilance of US citizens, but during the course of his speech the students in class did something pretty ballsy and brave. They got up from their seats and turned their backs to him.



To make matters worse for Gonzales, additional students came into the room, wearing black cowls and carrying a simple banner, written on a sheet.



Fortunately for him, it was a brief speech... followed by a panel discussion that basically ripped his argument a new asshole.

And, as one of the people on the panel said,

"When you're a law student, they tell you if say that if you can't argue the law, argue the facts. They also tell you if you can't argue the facts, argue the law. If you can't argue either, apparently, the solution is to go on a public relations offensive and make it a political issue... to say over and over again "it's lawful", and to think that the American people will somehow come to believe this if we say it often enough.

In light of this, I'm proud of the very civil civil disobedience that was shown here today."

- David Cole, Georgetown University Law Professor

It was a good day for dissent.
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That is so inspirational. It's nice to see that not everyone in our age group is so apathetic as to believe that the actions of the president are naturally "lawful". Long live freedom of speech... speak up while we still have the right to.
The left is stupid. They can do things here in America that they could never do anywhere else in the world. And then they want to trash those who are out there protecting that right they took to turn their backs on this country and goverment

Lets see them thank a returning soldier or send a gift to our brave wounded soldiers if they aere so concerned about sacrifice and liberty
Get a clue. It isn't only the left that is against the war. Not a few conservatives are too. And libertarians.
Wow they have so much to be proud of.
In June, 2002, Republican Sen. Michael DeWine introduced legislation (S. 2659) which would have eliminated the exact barrier to FISA Hayden was abusing yesterday. DeWine's legislation to amend the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 to modify the standard of proof for issuance of orders regarding non-United States persons from probable cause to reasonable suspicion. . . . In other words, DeWine’s bill could have eliminated the “probable cause” barrier claimed by Bush cabal in their latest spin. The Bush administration, in response, provided a Statement from James A. Baker,who “prepares and presents all applications for electronic surveillance and physical search under the Act to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISA Court or Court).” Baker, in his written statement, blatantly bragged about the Patriot Act on the ground that the 72-hour window stated IN the Patriot Act gave Bush the speed and flexibility he needed: "...One simple but important change that Congress made was to lengthen the time period for us to bring to court applications in support of Attorney General-authorized emergency FISAs. This modification has allowed us to make full and effective use of FISA’s pre-existing emergency provisions to ensure that the government acts swiftly to respond to terrorist threats. Again, we are grateful for the tools Congress provided us last fall for the fight against terrorism. Thank you.” “The practical concern involves an assessment of whether the current “probable cause” standard has hamstrung our ability to use FISA surveillance to protect our nation. We have been aggressive in seeking FISA warrants and, thanks to Congress’s passage of the USA PATRIOT Act, we have been able to use our expanded FISA tools more effectively to combat terrorist activities. It may not be the case that the probable cause standard has caused any difficulties in our ability to seek the FISA warrants we require, and we will need to engage in a significant review to determine the effect a change in the standard would have on our ongoing operations. If the current standard has not posed an obstacle, then there may be little to gain from the lower standard and, as I previously stated, perhaps much to lose.” The Department’s Office of Legal Counsel is analyzing relevant Supreme Court precedent to determine whether a “reasonable suspicion” standard for electronic surveillance and physical searches would, in the FISA context, pass constitutional muster. The issue is not clear cut, and the review process must be thorough because of what is at stake, namely, our ability to conduct investigations that are vital to protecting national security. If we err in our analysis and courts were ultimately to find a “reasonable suspicion” standard unconstitutional, we could potentially put at risk ongoing investigations and prosecutions. http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2002_hr/073102baker
And then the tanks rolled in and crushed those valiants crusading for freedom! ... Oh, wait, that didn't happen. Huh. Bush must still be an amateur at this dictatorship thing.

Honestly, I'm not fond of this wiretapping either, but this is hardly inspirational. Just a bunch of college kids trying to stick it to "the Man."
I respect that they're standing up for their beliefs, but it seems that they and a lot of other people have a distorted view of Bush & Co. Somehow they're simultaneously idiots and evil masterminds, and their motives are pure greed and power rather than an honest attempt to protect the country.

Certain Democrats have gotten to the point of saying outright, We don't need to come up with ideas of our own, we just need to denounce Bush. They need to rethink their strategy if they want to start winning elections.
It depends on who you define as citizens. People on a green card / work visa / illegals aren't citizens and don't have the same rights as citizens, so the govt. should have the right to wire tap them if they are suspected of terrorism. Once you are a citizen, it should require due process, court orders, the whole nine yards to get a wire tap/surveillance. I don't know which, if any of the people from the mosque were actually citizens. I believe the main concern was radiation, which should never ever require a search warrant of any kind. There's no reason for citizens / green card holders / work visa holders / illegals to personally own nuclear material on U.S. soil. I think their protest was an over-reaction to the mosque incident, and the students didn't completely educate themselves. I strongly believe we need to keep big brother in check for U.S. citizens. Spying on us is a big NO NO. I also strongly feel that the same people who point the finger at the govt. for spying on mosques with Geiger counters will be the same people to point their finger and blame the govt. when a nuke or dirty bomb is used on U.S. soil. That's always the case.

Another interesting note: They have Geiger Counters in the Holland tunnel and nobody complains about them.
"People on a green card / work visa / illegals aren't citizens and don't have the same rights as citizens, so the govt. should have the right to wire tap them if they are suspected of terrorism. "

OK, let's just assume that everybody knows that the Bush administration is entirely just and fair and that not one wiretap from this program was done to an actual citizen of the United States. Ever.

With that, must I mention that it's a slippery slope.
In my 31 years of life, I never never ever ever thought i'd see the day when Lawyers were hero's even future one's. But I now know the full extent of this as many friends of the family I know are people who deal with cars (read: Used Car salesmen/women) and even these days they are turning on the govt. I guess I can only say in these days there are two phrases that keep rattling in my head:

1. 40,000 men and women everyday... Come on baby we can be like them!

2. ...ah frag it the whole Were not gonna take it lyrics! Just replace all things dealing with authority with Bush!

I really don't care for the froggies but!

VIVA LA REVOLUTION!
That's so fucking awesome. Thanks for posting this!
May I add you? This post rocks!
Anyone can add me. Glad you liked the post!

Umm

Anonymous

January 26 2006, 03:05:35 UTC 11 years ago

Well Ok hold your Flames for atleast 10 sec

Back in Bens days The mujahideen where not operating in the US He based his policys for the time he was in the mujahideen have brought the war to our door step. And we must change the way we think and act.

Mujadin were not active in the colonies in Benjamin Franklin's day, no. But occupying British forces were.

This country is just like any other, in that it has always been open to the threat of people attacking it. No nation in history has ever not had someone try to attack it at some point or another. The only difference between now and any other point in history is the identity of the attacking force.

There is such a thing as changing the way we think too much.
Just freaking awesome!
Before AG walked into the room I said to my friend that I was disappointed that nobody was protesting. To be sure, I wasn't one of those who stood with their back turned, but it sure made me feel good to see it. AG's flawed comparison to Youngstown was reason enough alone for people to turn their backs on him, but it's so much more than that.
Next time join them. In any group, there is pressure to conform. Of course some people enjoy being non-conforming, and you have certainly met lots of them in law school.

Initially that social pressure is to not make waves, and the first people who step forward do so at their own risk. But as more and more people step up, the pressure switches from pressure to keep silent into pressure to join those who speak out. Don't hesitate, help and protect those you agree with by joining, and put pressure on others to join you. Please.

Disagree

Anonymous

January 26 2006, 04:26:34 UTC 11 years ago

All i can say is, you take your shoes off a the airport at security checkpoints, right? That's sacrificing your liberty. No one is complaining about that. Everything takes some sacrifice. I don't get why everyone is upset about this. Do you really think the government spies on your phone calls and gives a shit about how your individual day was? Or that someone broke up with you and you're calling your friend? Nobody has anything to worry about because the government isn't spying with an intent to 'get you' unless you are participating in something illegal.

One more note, why did the students walk out in black uniforms? They look like KKK uniforms. The black uniforms just look creepy and I sure for one wouldn't follow anyone who hides their identity like a coward.
Just watch what you say on your cellphone.

Re: Disagree

chaobell

11 years ago

Re: Disagree

sanity_cheque

11 years ago

In the scales hang Law and order against liberty and principles...

Liberty is only as strong as it is exercised, and government cannot afford to be principled. It is not a partisan failing Government can only measure law and order so that's its goal just as scientist leave the questions of God to theologians. Governments job is to provide as much Law and Order as it can while remaining in power. It is the individuals obligation to provide the ballasts for the other pan.

Maybe I missed something but doesn't "civil disobedience" refer to a willing and deliberate illegal act to make a protest against the law? While rude, and well dealt, I'm not sure this qualified.

To those with the citizen vs alien argument justifying this: If all men are created equal why should it matter what the label is given a person within this sovereignty? If we assume we shouldn't interfere directly with affairs outside why can't we act like we believe this at least in the home of the brave?

A Viking's funeral to us all. Read the comic "V" before going the movie.
beyond beautiful...this makes my day, my week, and the year so far. now if we can keep up the pressure and inform the american people of the orwellian mess we find ourselves in then...to quote camper van beethoven "life is grand..."

Ya!

Anonymous

January 26 2006, 05:33:51 UTC 11 years ago

Fuck Ya! Take that you imperial hack!
Brava! this is wonderful!
Lately, I've been wondering if my service on submarines had been in vain because of this administration's lack of respect for our constitution. The law student's show of civil disobedience makes me proud to have served and has renewed my hope and RESPECT for that generation! DON'T EVER GIVE UP THE FIGHT for our CIVIL RIGHTS!

-a submarine veteran of the cold war
From Knight Ridder...

Posted on Wed, Jan. 25, 2006

In 2002, Justice Department said eavesdropping law working well
By Jonathan S. Landay
Knight Ridder Newspapers
WASHINGTON - A July 2002 Justice Department statement to a Senate committee appears to contradict several key arguments that the Bush administration is making to defend its eavesdropping on U.S. citizens without court warrants.

The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, the law governing such operations, was working well, the department said in 2002. A "significant review" would be needed to determine whether FISA's legal requirements for obtaining warrants should be loosened because they hampered counterterrorism efforts, the department said then.

President Bush, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and other top officials now argue that warrantless eavesdropping is necessary in part because complying with the FISA law is too burdensome and impedes the government's ability to rapidly track communications between suspected terrorists.

In its 2002 statement, the Justice Department said it opposed a legislative proposal to change FISA to make it easier to obtain warrants that would allow the super-secret National Security Agency to listen in on communications involving non-U.S. citizens inside the United States.

read the rest at below link!

To read Greenwald's posts on the 2002 Justice Department statement, go to http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/

Knight Ridder Newspapers correspondents William Douglas and James Kuhnhenn contributed to this report.
That is absolutely amazing. There still is hope for the future!
Thank you for posting this. I'm sad that there isn't more media coverage on the law students' protest, but I'm not hardly surprised.
And then they prove me wrong. Thanks for reminding me what it really means to be an American.
Yeah... Rock on.....!!!!!
sweet. i suppose there must be more lawyers with morals out there than people expect.
We`ve re-posted the translation of your post on our website.
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