Insomnia ([info]insomnia) wrote,
@ 2005-03-29 00:27:00
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Thoughtcrime in Iraq.
A recent post by Khalid Jarrar from Iraq is a real eye opener. In it, he talks about a new, propaganda-oriented show on one of the Iraqi government TV channels. The show features Iraqi police interrogating the supposed insurgents, admitting an unbelievable laundry list of their crimes -- raping, killing, targeting civilians, etc.

He goes on to describe an unbelievable, constantly repeated scenario:

"The police ask them: why do you do that?
For money, sir!
How much are you getting paid?
100$ for an operation, sir!
And what do you do with that money?
We buy alcohols and drugs, sir!
What is your advice for all the terrorists that are still fighting?
I advice them to surrender, sir, and to cooperate with the authorities, sir!

This is exactly what each and every one of them said, since the show started, and till today, showing many of them a day, and then you learn details about some of those criminals: they confess that they kidnapped girls and raped them, then slaughtered them. One of them, has a big beard, and then they tell us he is gay and was caught having sex with another man inside the mosque. Another one, confessed that his mother is a pimp, and that his friends used to come to his house to "have fun" with his sisters. And the story goes on..

And while these "confessions" are about to be over, this question should always come:
where does that money come from?
from the Syrian intelligence, sir!
and then the policeman voice, preaches them, telling them how low they are, and what kind of disgusting creatures they are, and how they stained the word "jihad" and how hypocrite they are, pretending to be mojahideen while they are hardly humans, and the policeman would also say: if you were real mojahideen we -police- would have been the first to follow you, you are thieves, rapists and thugs. Can you see dear audience? Those are the mojahideen that you hear about in your country, those are the ones that are fighting, those are the so-called resistance, low scum that worth nothing, real Iraqis should help capture them whenever you see them, they deserve more than just killing, they deserve to be killed a hundred times, if they attack only Americans, if they were honest, we would have been the first to follow them!"


When I heard of this transparent propaganda, my initial thought was that these prisoners were either tortured or coerced to give such confessions. My second thought was that Syria must be Bush's next target. My third thought was "I've seen this before..."

"Nobody ever escaped detection, and nobody ever failed to confess. When once you had succumbed to thoughtcrime it was certain that by a given date you would be dead. Why then did that horror, which altered nothing, have to lie embedded in future time?" - George Orwell, "1984"


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[info]tlma0204114
2005-03-29 02:02 pm UTC (link)
Don't compare apples and oranges, when you haven't a clue what the apple tastes like and all you have is snap shots of it.

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[info]tlma0204114
2005-03-29 02:06 pm UTC (link)
"unbelievable laundry list" - the show may be propaganda, but then so are many shows in many countries, not least of which our own. And remember that you're talking about Iraq, an Arab country with that mentality. The media establishment over there, though newly "freed", still has the same stylized formats as they have always had.

The list is not unbelievable. Perhaps putting it all together like that makes it so. but it's not. I've been with the IPS. I've translated the daily blotters, been in the interrogation rooms, watched events unfold, watched raids, seen evidence etc etc etc...

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[info]insomnia
2005-03-29 03:42 pm UTC (link)
Sure, some of the actions are entirely believable, but some of them are not believable, either. The creators of the broadcast would have people believe that Syrian intelligence are the sole bankrollers of the insurrection, and that all of them are foriegners. That's patently absurd.

These prisoners are as scripted as this guy was. Their use in this manner clearly points out that they are not being treated in accordance with the Geneva Convention.

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[info]aramis307
2005-03-29 05:47 pm UTC (link)
It is important to remember something about Iraqis here...they are convinced it's all because of Syria. They refuse to believe that an Iraqi could do these things to another Iraqi. They also think of the Syrian Ba'ath regieme as the little brother of the Iraqi Ba'ath party. It's just part of the Arab mentality, combined with their habit for overstatement. If they say "ten", they mean "one". It's just the way they are. it's kind of the antithesis of the British habit of understatement.

We're not all that different. Most Americans' initial reaction to Abu Ghraib was disbelief. They couldn't believe that an American would do such things.

Having said all of that, I would also like to point Khalid Jarrar is not being entirely honest. I've actually watched the show. Assuming my translators are correct, and I have no reason to doubt they are, every confession is not a carbon copy of every other confession. Yes, many confessions end up blaming Syria, but many don't.

Also remember these detainees are being handled by the Iraqi police. Is it your contention that prisoners of domestic police agencies fall under the Geneva Convention? Your last sentance would seem to indicate such. The Iraqi view is that these are criminals arrested by the Iraqi police and being handled by the Iraqi justice system. How then would the Geneva Convention apply?

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[info]pattersonphoto
2005-03-29 03:18 pm UTC (link)
A pretty unbelievable story. I would want to have a second source for this before I believed it.

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Real (sort of)
[info]mrvetinari
2005-04-15 07:36 am UTC (link)
Around Baghdad I have had people say "That show on Al-Iraqiyya, the one that runs at 8pm with the Terrorist confessions, it's great, good job U.S. Army!" but in reality I know the media units I know about have NOTHING to do with the show, and it looks like entirely an Interior Ministry production. They have the sophistication to pull it off well, those ex-Saddam propagandists have to find work somewhere. I would love to take credit for it, but it is not in any way one of my guys projects.

Anyway, they often mention Syrians paid them - but rarely Syrian Intelligence by name. The Iraq / Syria border was (and is) fairly unguarded, so financiers from nations that have money are likely stopping by there.

The show is NOT carbon copy confessions, - but the stories are similar - I have yet to hear about gay or pedophilic confessions (Here they carry about the same social stigma). The confessions are obviously not "first takes" however.

Oh, and Geneva Conventions are not applicable to this, Uniformed Soldiers are not involved - this is an Iraqi thing. (Human Rights abuses would be a more applicable thing to look into).

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[info]qp4
2005-03-29 07:05 pm UTC (link)
Syria is lead by a "President" and if memory serves me right his name is Bashar.

And his father was also "President" and named Bashar.

I'm all for the invasion of Syria; I think it was a better target than Iraq if we're making Freedom. Syria is a land ruled by a Tyrannical Monarchy, and these must be removed from the face of the Earth.

Of course, it will look rather bad in the Muslim world since Syria is also Isreal's biggest foe.

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no way
(Anonymous)
2005-04-05 11:04 am UTC (link)
Invasion of Syria? For what reason this time? Do you not care what the Syrian people themselves think? Didn't we learn enough from the high civillian death toll in Iraq? Do you think the US will have any Arab or Muslim allies?

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Just like the Shah?
[info]bellatrys
2005-04-06 05:10 pm UTC (link)
When we overthrew the elected Mossadegh and put a hereditary monarch in power, were you all furious about that? Did you cheer the students rebelling and overthrowing the tyrant-king and his US trained torturers then?

If not, you're a howling hypocrite.

And why is it okay for us to kill thousands of people claiming it's for the purpose of freeing them, but not okay for other countries to do so? How is it any different for us? Or do you think that it was just fine when Russia did it.

Are you willing to have your own family killed, if it made this country any freer?

If not, you're a howling hypocrite.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Irony
[info]mrvetinari
2005-04-15 08:17 am UTC (link)
"Syria is lead by a "President" and if memory serves me right his name is Bashar.
And his father was also "President" and named Bashar"

I can't imagine Living in a nation where the Aristocracy is so entrenched that we have a Father and Son series of Presidents. The horror.

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Re: Irony
[info]qp4
2005-04-24 01:34 am UTC (link)
A funny joke about the first Syrian al'Daair or whatever.

They had an election and he won 99.7 percent of the vote. So his adminstators come to him, and are like, "Aren't you glad you got so much? What more could you want than 99.7 percent?"

"The names of the .3 percent."

Don't take that we're living under George III out of context. To call the United States a nation with a deeply entrenched aristocracy is either a blatant troll or just plain foolishness.

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